Migdalia

Magdalena, 38 at the time of this interview, learned to read at 28, while in a recovery program for substance abuse.  She first became involved with The Literacy Project through a Community Leadership Institute, and later decided to attend GED classes. 

I speak two languages and I traveled from New York City to Puerto Rico.  And so I spoke Spanish one minute and the next minute I was speaking English.  Because of this speaking two languages, teachers would suggest to my parents that I be put in a special education class.  And my parents didn’t go for it, and I’m really happy for that.  I sat in the back.  Didn’t ask any questions.  Didn’t say what I didn’t know.  I was just pushed to the next level without being asked if I understood or not.  I was being promoted.  And I didn’t understand it then.  I still don’t understand it now. 

“I sat in the back. Didn’t ask any questions. Didn’t say what I didn’t know.”

It was difficult for me.  I mean, I have siblings as well, and I would ask them for help.  And everyone was too busy to help me.  And so I stopped asking. 

“Everyone was too busy to help me. And so I stopped asking.”

Every summer we would go [to Puerto Rico] and we would stay for two or three months.  And I remember us being there for nearly three years at one time.  Between five and eight, I believe.  And they asked me to teach the kids over there how to speak English.  I was being encouraged there by, “You have this gift, you can speak English, give this to us.”  And over here, I felt as though my gift in Spanish wasn’t appreciated.  “We don’t speak that language here.”

We did a lot of church going in Puerto Rico.  Catholics.  I felt as though we were mandated to go to church.  I wanted to hang out on the tree and eat mangos.  And my mother used to dress me up, “Come on, we’re going to church.”  And I go, “OK, I’ll be outside.”  And here I am with my dress on, ready to go to church, and I’m climbing the tree.  I come back and I’m all dirty.  So I get in trouble of course. 

My cousin in Puerto Rico was a nun.  Her name is Lily.  And she was a nun.  And watching my cousin and how, all nuns are supposed to be this way.  She was so to herself and so quiet, and when men spoke or her father spoke or her brothers spoke, she was silent.  And maybe she was just praying to the gods, I don’t know.  But I saw myself as a girl, and I didn’t want to be that way.  I wanted to learn how to be…to be able to express.  Somehow, I became Lily in my own way. 

“My goal ... was to be the best swimmer and to be the first Puerto Rican woman ... to be in the Olympics. ”

I got promoted [to high school], and I was in a different district.  I really liked that because it had the pool.  My goal there was to be the best swimmer and to be the first Puerto Rican woman, first Puerto Rican girl, at the time, from Spanish Harlem, to be in the Olympics.  And that was my dream.  I was really good at it.  [High school] is where I found that coach.  The coach who encouraged me.  Because I had the ability and he would state that to me.  And I remember him saying to us not to drink or drug, because our dreams will be shattered.  Try to stay away from drinking and drugging because our dreams will be shattered.  I’ll never forget that. 

“High school is where I found that coach. The coach who encouraged me. And I remember him saying to us not to drink or drug, because our dreams will be shattered. ”

I started, I mean, I started dibbing and dabbing, maybe when I was fifteen.  Because I was invincible.  Or I thought I was.  It didn’t pertain to me, what he had said.  But I heard it so loudly in my ear.  The words that he said.  They rang really loudly in my ear.  I guess that was my message and I didn’t get it.  I had regrets for quite a few years until I, entering recovery, I grieved it a lot.  My swimming career.  And today I still have his voice in my head. 

“I guess that was my message and I didn’t get it.”

My dad passed away at the age of seventeen.  My dad passed and I dropped out.  Nothing mattered anymore.  And I remember my younger brother and I, we went and buried my dad in Puerto Rico.  …And we cried.  And that was it.  I didn’t cry anymore.  I didn’t cry anymore after that.  About anything. 

“My dad passed away at the age of seventeen. My dad passed and I dropped out. ”

And then at the age of eighteen, I found the coolest thing, which was really sociable, and it was okay by society to have a couple of drinks here and there.  And then it wasn’t a couple of drinks anymore.  I drank for ten, eleven years.  Not every day.  Later on it became almost every day.  But I stopped feeling.  I stopped smiling. 

“I drank for ten, eleven years. ”

In 1995, I got help and I was sent to a rehab.  Smithers Rehab.  93rd and Madison Avenue in New York City.  I look at this and I go, “Well, I always wanted a big house.  But I must be careful what I wish for, I guess.”  But it was a gift, it was a blessing, and I was just finally done. 

“I stopped feeling. I stopped smiling.”

My mother has always taken care of me.  She’s 75 years old.  Beautiful woman, and I couldn’t see that before.  I was full of rage and resentment.  Throughout my years of being so angry, I was forgetting all these beautiful parts of my life as a child, being taken care of.  They’re coming back.  Being able to see that is a really cool place to be.  I’m liking me for who am I, and I’m loving my mother for the woman she has been and she is today, so it’s pretty cool. 

I’ve come to know many loving people here in Greenfield.  I do consider this home because of these people.  I have a bigger group of people in NYC and they’re from all different walks of life.  And sometimes I just miss the variety, the colors.  Here in Greenfield, I’m getting in touch with this other side.  I knew about poverty with Blacks and Hispanics, I come from that place.  But I would read about, I began to read about Caucasians and the poverty, and the lack of education.  Being in NYC, I didn’t see that, Caucasians that I knew came from an educated place.  Have money or pretended to have money.  And when I got here, I actually saw it.  I see it.  And I’m learning, it isn’t just because I’m Hispanic.  That we all hurt, and we all need help.  So being in Greenfield opened that, that door for me, and allowed me to see the reality of it.  So I’m really grateful to Greenfield.  I’m grateful.

“I”m learning... that we all hurt, and we all need help.”

My upbringing didn’t allow me to share what I thought.  Didn’t allow me to share with you that I didn’t understand.  Didn’t allow me to tell you that I think I’m going really nuts here and I need your help.  So I’m still mending from that.  I always thought that there was something wrong with me.  And what I’m learning now is that there’s really nothing wrong with me.  I just need to practice these things. 

“My upbringing didn’t allow me to share what I thought. Didn’t allow me to share with you that I didn’t understand.”

It’s not a part – I should say, it wasn’t a part of my life to sit down and study and ask for help, and to tell you that I don’t know.  So I’m learning that now.  And there are moments where it’s really difficult to say, “I need help.  I don’t understand.”   I’m slowly learning that, and Joe and Louise, they make that possible.  Like, they encourage me.  And I don’t know if it’s been there before, but I know I feel it now.  The encouragement of people.  So I like The Literacy Project.  I like that you guys have been around for twenty years.  I hope you guys have a hundred more.  I’m just hoping not to be here! 

“It wasn’t a part of my life to sit down and study and ask for help, and to tell you that I don’t know. So I’m learning that now.”

Pat

Pat, 49 at the time of this interview, was a GED student at The Literacy Project’s Pioneer Valley Adult Education Center.  She passed her GED and continued on to Greenfield Community College.  She graduated with her Associate’s Degree in May 2005.  She plans to continue on with her education. 

(My mother) just abandoned us.  She had custody and then she gave us up to my father, and he had a second wife.  And then, supposedly, they were supposed to keep track of us.  But when she came back to visit and found us not being taken care of, she just went and found somebody and just left us again.  But she never told us.  She just had someone else come in the house… and there was some kind of a parade.  And I was outside and I asked, “Where was mommy?”  And, “She’s in California.”  “When is she coming back?”  And, “Never.”  And I remember the picture.  I remember standing there.  I remember the size of the child and I also know [that] the last time she saw me was around 3 ½…at that point, that time, and it was matter of fact.  And then to me, California was the end of the earth. 

“From that point on, words were just used to hurt you.”

From that point on, words were used to just hurt you.  I mean, you never knew.  It was “I love you,” but bam. You didn’t hear kind words, you weren’t encouraged.  You were told you were worthless and when they did use a good word…I was molested by my father and, you know, “I love you.”  So words still, they’re still very much a weapon.  But I have taken them back and I’ve been using them.  Learning to go ahead and write them.  Learning that you have a right to write down anything you want to write, whether or not somebody likes it.  Learning that you have power. 

“But I have taken them back and I’ve been using them. Learning to go ahead and write them.”

I didn’t have a good time in school and all.  I was lucky – I didn’t get picked on by any kids.  But we moved a lot, so I had a very hard time with even trusting some of the teachers.  I had one teacher tell me that I owed him because he passed me.  And I worked hard.  I worked so hard for my grades and I’d get them and I did not pass, and I couldn’t understand. 

“I had to quit school at 16. My father did not believe in education.”

I had to quit school at 16.  My father did not believe in education.  So I didn’t get to have after-school help.  I did my homework if I could.  I had to work at 14.  So I quit on my 16th birthday.  And I tried to go back to school when I was 18, night school, and that’s when they gave me the 2nd grade book and put me back with the vocabulary and stuff. 

“I could read, so people had no idea that I didn’t have a GED or a high school diploma.”

I could read, so people had no idea that I didn’t have a GED or a high school diploma.  Anybody with an education was so intimidating.  Luckily, I read a lot.  But I didn’t consider that as being educating; I just did it.  You know, wherever I was there was books; I had books in the car – always had a book on me.  So I had learned things without realizing it.  I was running a business and all that and was making money, but I had no other options.  I couldn’t do anything else. 

“I was running a business and all that and was making money, but I had no other options. I couldn’t do anything else.”

My brother had been a student [at The Literacy Project] and he had said, “Pat, you’ve got to go to this place.”  So I put it off and I put it off and he kept mentioning it.  And he goes, “You’ll enjoy it; it’s a great experience.”  I says, “Bob, the last time I went to school, they gave me a 2nd grade book and put me in back of the class.”  He goes, “Just try it; I’ll go with you.”  So I says, “Okay, but if it doesn’t work out…” This was the last time.  I was not gonna try to get my GED again.  So the day came for me to go in.  And my brother couldn’t make it.

“To open the door and take that first step in was so hard!”

So I pulled into the parking lot and I sat there, and I’m like “Oh God, can I do this?”  And I got out, and then to open the door and take that first step in was, like, so hard!   I was scared to death.  Because I was sure of rejection or whatever.  I didn’t know. 

I remember my first goal was to get through high school – to get my GED – and within two weeks of starting The Literacy Project, I decided I could go to college; it was within two weeks.  It just shocked the hell out of me because all of a sudden I was learning, and I’m like, “I can do this; I can go to college.” 

“I remember my first goal was to get through high school. ... and within two weeks of starting The Literacy Project, I decided I could go to college.”

These art classes and writing classes - they help something else grow.  I had a rough childhood [with] a lot of different mothers.  The third mother was very verbally [abusive].  I was having trouble in school, 4th grade.  I couldn’t do symbols in math.  And I couldn’t tell the difference of the sounds of the letters, and I had a little speech problem.  I got my fourth birthday taken away – my 4th grade birthday.  Nobody was allowed to say “Happy Birthday” because I got a bad grade on math.  And I had this favorite yellow dress and I mean it was my…we didn’t get a lot of new clothes.  Or I didn’t.  I was given hand-me-downs.  I was like the servant in the house.  She didn’t like me, and she would just say, “I don’t know how you can stand it.  If I was you, I would run away.”  And she kept saying things like that, so I packed all my clothes in my little bags – sandwich bags…and I didn’t have a lot, apparently, because it fit all in a box.  And I left my yellow dress behind so that they can give it to somebody else who deserved it. 

“These art classes and writing classes - they help something else grow.”

And I never used yellow.  I just never used it at all.  No clothing – no nothing.  Nothing with yellow was in my house at all.  And I never even realized I didn’t put it on my kids, or anything, all those years until we were doing the art [at The Literacy Project].  And then I took back the color yellow and all.  I started buying some things with yellow.  A lot of my flowers are yellow in the yard.  So I learned a lot in that little program, you know the art [class]. 

“Getting my GED was so amazing. ...I finally had this piece of paper that says, “Now you have the choice.””

[Getting my GED] was so amazing.  To know that I had this option.  I finally had this piece of paper that says, “Now you have the choice” and you can do whatever you wanted.  I mean, here I couldn’t even write a paragraph.  It was like an hour to write a paragraph.  And now – a 15-page paper is easy for me .  7-page, 8-page.  I mean, I can write.  And I have an ability to write stories that I never thought of, because it just come from inside.  And all those years of not being able to put it on paper. 

“I can learn anything and it connects up somewhere along the line of whatever you’ve learned.”

Now I have the option where I can take any class.  I can learn anything and it connects up somewhere along the line of whatever you’ve learned.  I just might become a professional student out there!  Because I just want to learn everything; I just want to know everything.  I never knew there was so much you could learn.

And having those choices.  I have freedom.  I mean, no matter what else, I have a freedom to use my mind and to learn whatever I want – and that’s a big freedom.

“I have freedom. I mean, no matter what else, I have a freedom to use my mind and to learn whatever I want —and that’s a big freedom.”

Ed

Ed Carter, 64 at the time of this interview, was a student at The Literacy Project’s Charboneau Learning Center in Greenfield.  He also became a member of the Board of Directors and spoke in public numerous times about The Literacy Project and learning to read as an adult.

When I graduated from school, I couldn’t read nor write.  What happened was, when I was a kid they held me back in second grade, I guess it was, because I had what they called a speech impediment.  And they didn’t know what to do with me.  I used to stutter. 

“When I graduated from school, I couldn’t read nor write.”

But then, I overcome that.  I mean, I still stutter a little bit, if I get real nervous, but outside of that I overcame it.  Back then, they wanted to put me in a, well, I think they call it an insane asylum, because they didn’t know what to do with me.  And my mother says, “Uh-uh.  No way is he going away like that.”  She really stood up for me.  It was tough, you know?  Of course I was young and my mother didn’t say too much to me about it, but she fought with the doctors and everybody else.  So consequently I stayed home, stayed out of the institutions and everything else like that. 

So [the school] put me in the back of the room and that’s where I stayed all day and they didn’t do nothing with me.  And they said, “Read a book.”  I says, “How the heck can I read a book if I can’t read?”  Finally, I didn’t tell them that. 

I went to a vocational school at the high school, and I took shop.  So what happened is, we had one week of shop and one week of class.  One week of shop, build stuff, and one week of class, try to pass that.  But I had a harder time doing that.  Then I finished out the school in what they call shop course, carpentry and stuff like that.  And I graduated.  I just wish they had done more than they did.  That’s my opinion.  The school system did not, I feel, treat me very good. 

“I was married twenty some odd years, and my wife didn’t know I couldn’t read nor write.”

I was married twenty some odd years, and my wife didn’t know I couldn’t read nor write.  We’ve known each other for… I don’t know how long.  She was in the band with me, the high school band.  Something came up and I needed somebody for a date and so back then I was shy and I didn’t dare to call anybody.  So my mother called her and wanted to know if she would go out with me, and so she said yeah.  So we went out.  And I asked her if she would marry me, and she said, “No, not tonight,” she says.  So I said okay.  So a couple of days later I asked her again.  I said, “Will you marry me?”  She said, “Are you serious?”  I said, “Yes, I’m serious.”  She said, “Yes, I will.”  And of course, back then you had to go and ask their parents’ permission to marry their daughter.  So I did and that was it.  Started planning for the wedding. 

“And then our 25th anniversary was coming up and see, were were planning on going on a cruise. ”

And then our 25th anniversary was coming up and, see, we were planning on going on a cruise.  My objective was to be able to read the menu without having to say, “What are you having?  I’ll have the same thing.”  So, I says to the wife, I says, “What do you think about me going back to school?”  And she says, “For why?”  I says, “To learn how to read and write.”  She said, “You know how to read and write.”  I say, “No, I don’t.”  “You don’t?!”  And I says, “No.” 

“My objective was to be able to read the menu without having to say, “What are you having? I’ll have the same thing.””

[If I needed to read something,] I would usually say to her, “Here, you read it.  You can read better than I can.”  And, of course, she used to read it and everything like that.  And I could get away with not reading it.  Even her mother and her father didn’t know that I couldn’t read.  And, of course, I watched a lot of TV, if I wanted to be current on the stuff that would come on TV.

But see, what I couldn’t do I made up other ways.  Like, if I had to go to the bank and fill out a withdrawal slip, I’ll take my glasses off and leave them out in the car, and tell them, if they could fill it out for me, “I left my glasses in the car.”  And they would.  With work, you had to read repair orders.  I was an auto technician for a few years and I was a truck driver for eighteen years or so.  In the auto business you had to read a repair order and that really stumped me.  So I would go to the guy that wrote it and I would say, “What does this say?  I can’t read your writing,” or something like that.  And he would tell me, and of course, then I knew what was going on. 

“But see, what I couldn’t do I made up other ways.”

I was a type of person, if say, you show me how to do something, and do it easier – beautiful.  I would learn and that would make my job a lot easier.  If somebody’s willing to take the time to show me something, I’m willing to learn.  That happened quite a bit in the automobile industry. 

“If somebody’s willing to take the time to show me something, I’m willing to learn.”

I came to The Literacy Project for quite a while, because I wanted to learn everything, as much as I could.  And back then it was Lindy Whiton and Jim Vaughan [Co-Founders].  They tested me when I first came to the Project, and I had 2nd or 3rd grade reading skills.  Maybe not even that amount.  Lindy had a little book, probably a first or second grade book, and I had trouble reading that. 

“I came to The Literacy Project for quite a while, because I wanted to learn everything.”

So eventually, over the years and stuff, it got to the point where I could read the stuff like that.  And I read one whole book, with a volunteer that we had, and she got up and she was waving and everything else, “He read it!  He read the whole story!” 

Usually I was kind of one-on-one with a volunteer.  We had one volunteer, Jim Brissette.  I felt comfortable with him.  He would say, “You’ve got to read all the time, or most of the time, and then you become efficient at it.”  And so, that’s why I go along the highway and read the signs.  Even now, today, if we’re driving along on the road, I’ll read the signs and nine times out of ten I’ll get them right. 

“Even now, today, if we’re driving along on the road, I’ll read the signs and nine times out of ten I get them right.”

If it wasn’t for The Literacy Project, I wouldn’t really be where I am today.  Matter of fact, Jim Vaughan says to me, he says, “Hey Ed, how would you like to give a speech?”  I says, “I don’t know about that Jim.”  And so he says, “Think about it.”  I thought about it.  And so I says, “What the hell– nothing ventured, nothing gained.”  So we went up to the Rotary Club, and we had a question and answer period, which, to brag, I think I made out pretty good.  And then Jim come out with me and he shook my hand and he said, “Congratulations, Ed.  You did a hell of a job.  I was proud of you.”  And that was the beginning of the end.  We gave a lot speeches.  By this time it didn’t bother me.  I don’t want to blow my own horn, but we were on T.V.! 

But the main focus, or whatever you want to call it, was the 25th wedding anniversary.  I wanted to, as I said, go on that cruise to Alaska and be able to read the menu.   And when we did go on the cruise, I could read the menu and order what I want to.  I [ordered] lobster.  Lobster tails, and they were probably that big!

“But the main focus... was the 25th wedding anniversary. And when we did go on the cruise, I could read the menu and order what I want to. ”

After the point where I was able to read right, I would say [to my wife], “You want to read this?”  She’d say, “No, you can read it.  Read it.”  So I read it.  You know, if we get any cards, Easter cards, birthday cards, whatever, I read them to her.  We complement each other, I guess you’d call it.  I depend on her for stuff that I can’t do, you know, read or anything, and she depends on me for things she can’t do.  Which isn’t very much!  She can do just about anything. 

“I ordered lobster. Lobster tails, and they were probably that big! ”